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What are your thoughts on unions?

Brandon

Brandon

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I have some local friends that are very passionate about unions and some that think they are the worst thing every. I try to keep an open mind but my experience shows unions aren't needed these days. (like they were in the 40's)
What are your thoughts on them, are they good, are they bad and why do you feel that way?

Thanks
 
Unions are what shaped the laws for employment. Without unions we wouldn't have minimum wage or vacation/sick time.

Lots of good have come from unions and still does.
 
I'm not sure about the US, but in Germany, unions had lost some of their oomph in the 90ies/2000's, but they've improved in the 2010's a bit ... without unions, and their over 200 years of history, there'd be no work safety, no reasonable salaries, no vacations, no health insurance, no unemployment insurance, and much worse ... people would still be cutting each other's throats for a handful of bucks, I guess ...
 
I've seen many "union" workers that are very lazy and actually hard to fire because of labor laws.
I also don't care that you have to pay union dues to work..
I'll never be part of a union and I'm honestly not sure why any of my friends would want to be in a union.
 
Brandon said:
What if the company closes down like hostess did?
http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/16/news/companies/hostess-closing/index.html
Click to expand...

Don't know about the US. In Germany, it's covered by the unemployment insurance (if the employees have been employed for at least 12 months prior to the unemployment -- otherwise it's covered by unemployment money II aka basic safeguard ( = welfare ), if the person is eligible ).

In the US, you have welfare and food stamps, right? This can give people time to find a new employment.

If a company announces bankruptcy early enough, people can start looking for new jobs in time.

It rarely happens that a strike causes a bankruptcy. Normally, both side should negotiate terms of employment acceptable to both employer and employees. In Germany, we have a system that invokes a mediator in such cases, and agreements are usually reached before damage gets too large for the company.

Small companies with less than 20 employees do not have "union contracts" in Germany. Because they do not have a company council that represents the rights of the employees, only larger companies have that.

Also, we do not have unions in several branches of economy.

In small companies, employees have only limited rights ... and the government punishes when people quit their jobs (cuts or even loss of unemployment money claims), so most people are trying to keep the jobs they have or if not, try to accept any employment offer.

In larger companies, the company council has to agree when people are laid off.

I'm not sure about regulations in the US.
 
Monster said:
Don't know about the US. In Germany, it's covered by the unemployment insurance (if the employees have been employed for at least 12 months prior to the unemployment -- otherwise it's covered by unemployment money II aka basic safeguard ( = welfare ), if the person is eligible ).

In the US, you have welfare and food stamps, right? This can give people time to find a new employment.
Click to expand...
I know several that have gotten unemployment and none of them have been in a union. I think that's all standard practice over here?
 
fattony69 said:
Unions were originally meant when we didn't really have employment laws. Now we do.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but if people were to abolish unions, work conditions could never improve, and new regulations couldn't be introduced.

Say, there's a new industry, industry X, that involves some kind of new technology. The companies there would have free play, since it is potentially not covered by existing laws. Workers could not enforce anything then.

Also, without unions, workers could never strike. And companies that don't obey the law could simply bribe government officials.

To abolish unions, is very very dangerous for all employees.
 
To give you all an example of the usefulness of unions:

Remember that I told you that in Germany, salaries haven't risen for over 12 years, and that the unions appear to have slept until about 2 years ago?

In the past few years, there have finally been strikes of railway workers and flight attendants, because companies kept increasing ticket prices (and hoarding huge profits) without increasing salaries. Thanks to the strikes, people now get higher salaries in those industries.

In several business branches, we don't have minimum wages. Thanks to strikes, there are minimum wages now in some branches that have been created in the past decades, like mail delivery services (which were created after privatization of mail industry) for instance.

There's still a lot to improve in work conditions, and government regulation alone often simply doesn't happen if there is no pressure from unions.
 
Monster said:
Yeah, but if people were to abolish unions, work conditions could never improve, and new regulations couldn't be introduced.

Say, there's a new industry, industry X, that involves some kind of new technology. The companies there would have free play, since it is potentially not covered by existing laws. Workers could not enforce anything then.

Also, without unions, workers could never strike. And companies that don't obey the law could simply bribe government officials.

To abolish unions, is very very dangerous for all employees.
Click to expand...
Work conditions are constantly improving with multiple government agencies always being apart of each process. Like I said before, had this been about 60+ years ago, Id agree, but the government is constantly on top of everything and there are many laws citing what businesses can and cannot do. Yes, this is because of unions back in the day but the things they fought for have been won. Now they're useless.

As for industry x, there are existing laws that gets the basics down. Anything else would be added by the government after a few filings.

As for striking. Tell me that some strikes are ridiculous aka the NHL strike. I know casino worker strikes are as well. You don't need a union to strike. Walmart workers did it.

As for bribes, replace that with super pacs. Those companies have unions and still get screwed over.

Many successful businesses don't have unions as they aren't worth it. It's just an old method used to bully employees and take away money for nonsense.

Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act of 2009 was created for fair pay for women in the work place. Wasn't created with a union. Helped all women who are employed with or without a union.
 
Monster said:
To give you all an example of the usefulness of unions:

Remember that I told you that in Germany, salaries haven't risen for over 12 years, and that the unions appear to have slept until about 2 years ago?

In the past few years, there have finally been strikes of railway workers and flight attendants, because companies kept increasing ticket prices (and hoarding huge profits) without increasing salaries. Thanks to the strikes, people now get higher salaries in those industries.

In several business branches, we don't have minimum wages. Thanks to strikes, there are minimum wages now in some branches that have been created in the past decades, like mail delivery services (which were created after privatization of mail industry) for instance.

There's still a lot to improve in work conditions, and government regulation alone often simply doesn't happen if there is no pressure from unions.
Click to expand...
That's Germany. That's a whole different story. Different legislature. Different government.

With this economy, those people complaining they want more money can be easily replaced with someone who would not complain about their salary. Strikes only disrupt the economy and create issues.

Walmart employees once tried to start a union. Walmart found out and completely shut down the store and fired everyone. Know what happened? Everyone was easily replaced.

All your reasons theoretically should fix everything and do great but how come they haven't? Why? Unions are garbage and outdated methods that don't help.

I can think of one good thing about unions. My friend, she works at acme. It's a supermarket if you didn't know as they vary across the country. She is a ****ty employee. Hates her job. Complains viciously about it on Facebook and twitter. All offenses to be fired. She was fired. The union claimed that she was wrongly fired and got her job back. She is still a ****ty employee who still complains. They get a fee of her check on top of everything else taken out to protect her from things the union says they do too.
 
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