Should roids be legal in sports?

[jarekd1234]

No conspiracy, no media hyped up BS - just plain facts.

You're failing to back up your facts with any relevant research.

I have learned from experience and research - actually on location within sporting circles.

I'm waiting to see that research.

You may have taken you may not have taken - But glamorizing and condoning the use of in a forum which entertains the younger generation is bang out of order.

For that reason I am disappointed in you - not mad.

I don't see any correlation between the younger generation and healthy, grown up adult males.

but the science does dictate the damage long term use does to the human body.

What science?

Please cite any relevant studies showing steroids to have any serious health risks in healthy adult males.

You keep talking about 'science' and the 'dangers' but you have failed to provide any evidence to back up your claims.

 

[DENPAZ0R]

Yep. Because injecting yourself once makes you michael jordan overnight. GTFO



We don't allow athletes to do blood doping, but we allow them to sleep in altitude chambers, which does the same thing. That's how ridiculous rules are.



Yep. I guess alcohol and tobacco, which kill milions of people each year, are also legal for a good reason.

Steroids being illegal is all about money.



''You are wrong I am right'', lol, way to argue. Tralalalal I am right you're wrong tralalalal.

You can take x drug and when it clears from your system, you have the benefit of it and pass a drug test. Masking substances, 'not knowing' you took it, 'illness' theres plenty of ****ing ways to pass it.


Here's a video that I found interesting: Bigger, Stronger, Faster* - Drug Testing (Deleted Scene) - YouTube




TV has everything to do with it. People watch it and believe whatever they hear on the news, adverts etc.

Alcohol and Tobacco aren't making life unfair.

 

[jarekd1234]

Alcohol and Tobacco aren't making life unfair.

They aren't making life unfair? Tell that to people who have lost relatives in car accidents caused by drunk drivers.

Alcohol and tobacco kill milions of people each year, innocent people die because of drunk drivers. Somehow, they're legal.

Meanwhile steroids have minor and reversible side effects in healthy adult males, but are illegal. Not to mention they are on the 143rd place for the causes of ER visits, even behind a multi vitamin. They can improve the quality of life, enhance performance, yet you have so called 'experts' on the TV who are making up all kinds of lies to us.

 

[GonzaLoeb]

I agree with all Portland Timbers said.
I'm getting tired of reading your posts about alcohol and tobacco, like I said before, if you want to discuss about them, make some new threads. They have nothing to do with steroids.

You are saying that if steroids are taken carefully, they are "healthy".
You are forgetting one thing, we are humans.
Humans always want more and more, we will never be satisfied with anything.

All you say is "show me some studies", don't you have another thing to say? There are plenty of studies, life experiences, I will show you some when I have time and when I want to do it. Now I consider it's just a waste of time, you won't ever admit steroids have permanent negative effects on human body.

 

[sportsfan93]

Yep. Because injecting yourself once makes you michael jordan overnight. GTFO



We don't allow athletes to do blood doping, but we allow them to sleep in altitude chambers, which does the same thing. That's how ridiculous rules are.



Yep. I guess alcohol and tobacco, which kill milions of people each year, are also legal for a good reason.

Steroids being illegal is all about money.



''You are wrong I am right'', lol, way to argue. Tralalalal I am right you're wrong tralalalal.

You can take x drug and when it clears from your system, you have the benefit of it and pass a drug test. Masking substances, 'not knowing' you took it, 'illness' theres plenty of ****ing ways to pass it.




TV has everything to do with it. People watch it and believe whatever they hear on the news, adverts etc.

Hyperbaric chambers/etc is okay with me because they need to stay there in long durations to feel the effects but with steroids/drugs/epo, the effect would be fast or even instantaneous.

 

[jarekd1234]

Hyperbaric chambers/etc is okay with me because they need to stay there in long durations to feel the effects but with steroids/drugs/epo, the effect would be fast or even instantaneous.

Sleeping in those chambers gives you an unfair advantage over someone who doesn't. Same goes to people living at altitude. Should we ban them?

I agree with all Portland Timbers said.
I'm getting tired of reading your posts about alcohol and tobacco, like I said before, if you want to discuss about them, make some new threads. They have nothing to do with steroids.

You are saying that if steroids are taken carefully, they are "healthy".
You are forgetting one thing, we are humans.
Humans always want more and more, we will never be satisfied with anything.

All you say is "show me some studies", don't you have another thing to say? There are plenty of studies, life experiences, I will show you some when I have time and when I want to do it. Now I consider it's just a waste of time, you won't ever admit steroids have permanent negative effects on human body.

I'm waiting for said studies. No one has yet posted any.

They can be taken safely in healthy adult men. If we 'humans' want to take more and more, that's going to be abusing it, which not everyone is doing, and not what I was talking about. Use and abuse are two different things.

You're all talking about how their illegal for a 'reason', so I guess killing people from alcohol and tobacco is also for a 'reason'. That reason is money.

 

[Portland Timbers]

The big players: http://www.wada-ama.org/en/Science-Medicine/

Multiple studies and links: http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar...study&btnG=Search&as_sdt=0,5&as_ylo=&as_vis=1

And then there is:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/performance-enhancing-drugs/HQ01105

http://taylorhooton.org/dangers-of-anabolic-steroids/

http://www.steroidabuse.com/steroid-statistics.html

http://www.steroids.org/Dangers-of-Steroid-Abuse.php

 

[Portland Timbers]

Sleeping in those chambers gives you an unfair advantage over someone who doesn't. Same goes to people living at altitude. Should we ban them?



I'm waiting for said studies. No one has yet posted any.

They can be taken safely in healthy adult men. If we 'humans' want to take more and more, that's going to be abusing it, which not everyone is doing, and not what I was talking about. Use and abuse are two different things.

You're all talking about how their illegal for a 'reason', so I guess killing people from alcohol and tobacco is also for a 'reason'. That reason is money.

Nobody denies alcohol and tobacco dangers - Big Pharma companies make huge amounts of money from steroids for legal medical use, far more than tax revenues from tobacco and alcohol as medical steroids are worth their weight in gold.

Government tax revenues from tobacco sales in the UK was 11.1 billion GBP in 2011, from alcohol it was 14.6 billion GBP.

From medical steroids: the figure is harder to compile however from just treatment for skin disorders and muscular growth for accident victims and degenerative illnesses the figure alone was 17.3 billion GBP.

 

[jarekd1234]

The big players: http://www.wada-ama.org/en/Science-Medicine/

Completely irrelevant, drug tests are easy to pass and I explain how before.

Multiple studies and links: http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar...study&btnG=Search&as_sdt=0,5&as_ylo=&as_vis=1

Link me to studies that are relevant and show any serious health risks. Minor side effects are obvious, lowered good cholesterol, higher blood pressure, etc. I don't see any of that 'liver failure' or 'heart disease' that's supposed to happen straight away as I always hear on the media.

And then there is:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/performance-enhancing-drugs/HQ01105

http://taylorhooton.org/dangers-of-anabolic-steroids/

http://www.steroidabuse.com/steroid-statistics.html

http://www.steroids.org/Dangers-of-Steroid-Abuse.php

Completely irrelevant. We're talking about steroid use, not abuse. Those links aren't even studies, they're just articles that are just scare tactics.

 

[Portland Timbers]

Completely irrelevant, drug tests are easy to pass and I explain how before.




Link me to studies that are relevant and show any serious health risks. Minor side effects are obvious, lowered good cholesterol, higher blood pressure, etc. I don't see any of that 'liver failure' or 'heart disease' that's supposed to happen straight away as I always hear on the media.



Completely irrelevant. We're talking about steroid use, not abuse. Those links aren't even studies, they're just articles that are just scare tactics.

You have not even bothered to read them.

I have a role in youth development at various sports facilities in the UK and the USA - I know my **** and I know when someone is clearly in denial. I have made this kind of abuse and looking for the signs and dangers, plus the cheats more or less a job.

Scare tactics? PMSL this is not a conspiracy against steroids... would you say that the use of heroin, cocaine and opiates and the dangers of are just scare tactics?

You really need to visit some rehab clinics and talk to people there.

You say that they are easy to pass?

What you are saying that many of the athletes who are clean are not clean based on your un-scientific knowledge of the processes? Absolute BS dude!

I linked you to both dangers and studies, if you take the time to read them and not glance through them in 10 second you will see that the scientific facts, studies, results and evidence is ALL there. That is only a miniscule amount of evidence.

 

[jarekd1234]

A few studies from your link:

http://chestjournal.chestpubs.org/content/114/1/19.short

Conclusion: The administration of oral anabolic steroids for 27 weeks to malnourished male subjects with COPD was free of clinical or biochemical side effects. It was associated with increases in BMI, lean body mass, and anthropometric measures of arm and thigh circumference, with no significant changes in endurance exercise capacity.

http://ajrccm.atsjournals.org/content/152/4/1268.short

Two hundred seventeen patients with COPD participated in a placebo-controlled, randomized trial investigating the physiologic effects of nutritional intervention alone (N) for 8 wk or combined with the anabolic steroid nandrolone decanoate (N + A). Nandrolone decanoate or placebo (P) was injected intramuscularly (women, 25 mg; men, 50 mg) in a double-blind fashion on Days 1, 15, 29, and 43. Nutritional intervention consisted of a daily high caloric supplement (420 kcal; 200 ml). Also, all patients participated in an exercise program.

Nutritional supplementation in combination with a short course of anabolic steroids may enhance the gain in FFM and respiratory muscle function in depleted patients with COPD without causing adverse side effects.

http://ukpmc.ac.uk/abstract/MED/1335979/reload=0;jsessionid=FLzfp5qC2aUXY2NZEPIU.2

Twenty-three middle-aged abdominally obese men were treated for eight months with testosterone or with placebo. Testosterone treatment was followed by a decrease of visceral fat mass, measured by computerized tomography, without a change in body mass, subcutaneous fat mass or lean body mass. Insulin resistance, measured by the euglycemic/hyperinsulinemic glucose clamp method, improved and blood glucose, diastolic blood pressure and serum cholesterol decreased with testosterone treatment.

It is concluded that testosterone treatment of middle-aged abdominally obese men gives beneficial effects on well-being and the cardiovascular and diabetes risk profile, results similar to those observed after hormonal replacement therapy in postmenopausal women.

http://archpsyc.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/57/2/141

Conclusion Testosterone is well tolerated and effective in the short-term treatment of symptoms of clinical hypogonadism in men with symptomatic human immunodeficiency virus illness, restoring libido and energy, alleviating depressed mood, and increasing muscle mass.

There's plenty of studies. I hope you can read them on your own.

 

[jarekd1234]

You have not even bothered to read them.

I have a role in youth development at various sports facilities in the UK and the USA - I know my **** and I know when someone is clearly in denial.

Scare tactics? PMSL this is not a conspiracy against steroids... would you say that the use of heroin, cocaine and opiates and the dangers of are just scare tactics?

You really need to visit some rehab clinics and talk to people there.

You say that they are easy to pass?

What you are saying that many of the athletes who are clean are not clean based on your un-scientific knowledge of the processes? Absolute BS dude!

I linked you to both dangers and studies, if you take the time to read them and not glance through them in 10 second you will see that the scientific facts, studies, results and evidence is ALL there. That is only a miniscule amount of evidence.

Question: How do you know an athlete is clean, when there are plenty of ways to pass drug tests?

 

[Portland Timbers]

Question: How do you know an athlete is clean, when there are plenty of ways to pass drug tests?

Name a way to pass with today's technology?

Tests are conducted via blood samples, mouth swabs, urine tests, sweat tests, hair follicles, semen tests - hormone tests in both male and females also.

In pro-sports there is absolutely no cheating the system anymore. Do you think someone these days who is serious about and has trained for 10 years would purposefully cheat the system knowing that there is a 99.9% chance they will get caught and banned?

No... education has been key over the last 10 years or so, those who wish to cheat WILL get caught one way or another.

Yes I do not deny that there are some methods of detection that can be cheated - but a combination of methods and the follicle tests are 99.9% successful. The 0.1% is factored in for mistakes and technology glitches.

Some 'on the day' tests may not pick up immediate results but will be detected in the lab - without a good reason and again factoring accidental food substances and drinks - they will be caught and banned.

The new DNA and metabolic tests will be 100% and have had successful trials recently in the UK and the USA.

Cheating has had its day.

 

[jarekd1234]

Name a way to pass with today's technology?

Tests are conducted via blood samples, mouth swabs, urine tests, sweat tests, hair follicles, semen tests - hormone tests in both male and females also.

In pro-sports there is absolutely no cheating the system anymore. Do you think someone these days who is serious about and has trained for 10 years would purposefully cheat the system knowing that there is a 99.9% chance they will get caught and banned?

No... education has been key over the last 10 years or so, those who wish to cheat WILL get caught one way or another.

Yes I do not deny that there are some methods of detection that can be cheated - but a combination of methods and the follicle tests are 99.9% successful. The 0.1% is factored in for mistakes and technology glitches.

The new DNA and metabolic tests will be 100% and have had successful trials recently in the UK and the USA.

Cheating has had its day.

Let me see. Test Proprionate stays has a 2-3 day life span. After that, you're clean. Take it in the offseason, get the benefits of it, come off, pass a drug test, boom. Different drugs have a different life span, take them in the offseason, get clean for a drug test. Bribing can also work.

Masking substance. There are tablets for the kidneys that block the metabolites of steroids, so when athletes give a urine sample, they don’t excrete the metabolites and thus test negative.

Designer drugs are composed of several different chemicals that trigger the desired reaction. At the end of the chain you change one or two molecules in such a way that the entire structure is undetectable for the doping testers.

Or there is an enzyme that slowly consumes proteins - epo has protein structures, and the enzyme thus ensures that the B sample of the doping test has a completely different value than the A sample.

Another one, having some kind of illness like asthma where you need to take a medication that improves your performance.

Or when an athlete 'didn't know he took something' or that it was in something he didn't know, so they let him get away with it.


It's also worth mentioning bodybuilders, who are 300lbs+ at a relatively low body fat level, all get drug tested. NFL players? Bigger than bodybuilders in the 70's or even some that compete now. All play sports that require you to get hit multiple times in a game, few 250lbs+ men running at each other at full speed, multiple times per game, every day. Yeah, their recovery is somehow quick. Usain Bolt being natural? You're kidding me. He's much faster than even when steroids were legal. Show me someone on drugs who runs faster than him (and doesnt compete). Drugs work, so someone took them and would be faster than him.

Olympic Lifters being natty? Yeah, like you can lift 300kg being natty, and people on ****loads of drugs in gyms cant.

 

[Portland Timbers]

Let me see. Test Proprionate stays has a 2-3 day life span. After that, you're clean. Take it in the offseason, get the benefits of it, come off, pass a drug test, boom. Different drugs have a different life span, take them in the offseason, get clean for a drug test. Bribing can also work.

Masking substance. There are tablets for the kidneys that block the metabolites of steroids, so when athletes give a urine sample, they don’t excrete the metabolites and thus test negative.

Designer drugs are composed of several different chemicals that trigger the desired reaction. At the end of the chain you change one or two molecules in such a way that the entire structure is undetectable for the doping testers.

Or there is an enzyme that slowly consumes proteins - epo has protein structures, and the enzyme thus ensures that the B sample of the doping test has a completely different value than the A sample.

Another one, having some kind of illness like asthma where you need to take a medication that improves your performance.

Or when an athlete 'didn't know he took something' or that it was in something he didn't know, so they let him get away with it.


It's also worth mentioning bodybuilders, who are 300lbs+ at a relatively low body fat level, all get drug tested. NFL players? Bigger than bodybuilders in the 70's or even some that compete now. All play sports that require you to get hit multiple times in a game, few 250lbs+ men running at each other at full speed, multiple times per game, every day. Yeah, their recovery is somehow quick. Usain Bolt being natural? You're kidding me. He's much faster than even when steroids were legal. Show me someone on drugs who runs faster than him (and doesnt compete). Drugs work, so someone took them and would be faster than him.

Olympic Lifters being natty? Yeah, like you can lift 300kg being natty, and people on ****loads of drugs in gyms cant.

Just because some can't there are those that can lift - we live in a different era where technology is making great advances forward for athletes.

Usain Bolt is completely natural, what you are saying is insane... if you want to do a Ben Johnson then go ahead is what I say but you will be caught, winning medal stripped and your career - what is the point?

Like I say the new advances are already catching those who need catching - as you say there are those drugs that block detection, but there is now detection methods for detecting those drugs - if there is no real reason to have such substances in your system you will be banned.

detection speeds are increasing - most major facilities now have testing labs with the full shaboodle of equipment needed.

People with asthma tend not to be in pro-competition without medical help - some conditions are acceptable, but steroids are not part of that help. Some medications are on the list with athletes that are troubled by injury or medical conditions - but again there are rules to be followed, these substances do not improve performance.

As i say the day of the competitive cheat is done.

 

[jarekd1234]

Just because some can't there are those that can lift - we live in a different era where technology is making great advances forward for athletes.

Usain Bolt is completely natural, what you are saying is insane... if you want to do a Ben Johnson then go ahead is what I say but you will be caught, winning medal stripped and your career - what is the point?

Like I say the new advances are already catching those who need catching - as you say there are those drugs that block detection, but there is now detection methods for detecting those drugs - if there is no real reason to have such substances in your system you will be banned.

detection speeds are increasing - most major facilities now have testing labs with the full shaboodle of equipment needed.

People with asthma tend not to be in pro-competition without medical help - some conditions are acceptable, but steroids are not part of that help. Some medications are on the list with athletes that are troubled by injury or medical conditions - but again there are rules to be followed, these substances do not improve performance.

As i say the day of the competitive cheat is done.

Usain Bolt being clean? Show me someone who's quicker than him, and on drugs. I showed you how to pass drug tests.

Judging by your logic, bodybuilding is a clean sport, where they get to 300lbs at low body fat level. They're drug tested too.

NFL players are as big as some bodybuilders. They're clean too, yeah?


Here's an interview with Ben Johnson(at the same race, carl lewis was also found to be using steroids FYI.)

''Inadvertent Use'' is also another excuse athletes can make. How can you prevent that?

Starts at 4:15

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gngr6OCayTI"]Bigger Stronger Faster (Part 6 11).flv - YouTube[/ame]

 

[DarkPassenger]

Most people would take them to succeed. I think that is a sign of the times. What people are willing to push and sacrifice to get a little ahead. Competition keeps getting higher as the population grows and things become more automated. It crazy

 

[McGuire]

For this topic i would have to say no. If your using drugs to alter your performance you are not an athlete. Eventually it will get too much to where its not even a fun sport to watch because they are using so many drugs. I personally think its better when they are actual athletes that are good just because they are dedicated and have tallent. Always reminds me of Walter Payton! lol

 

[jarekd1234]

For this topic i would have to say no. If your using drugs to alter your performance you are not an athlete. Eventually it will get too much to where its not even a fun sport to watch because they are using so many drugs. I personally think its better when they are actual athletes that are good just because they are dedicated and have tallent. Always reminds me of Walter Payton! lol

There is so much wrong in this post it's not worth mentioning.

 

[lolfb]

Strong ignorance in this thread. No wonder this country is run by morons. You guys think you know everything about steroids from watching a 10 minute segment done by fox news. I could go through this whole thread and rage on every single one of you, but would rather not waste my time even more than I am now.

1. Steroids do have side effects, all of which can be countered. There are many, many, MANY people in this world that have done multiple cycles without any long term effects. The people that do have long term effects are those who buy deca and tren in their high school locker rooms without even knowing what pct is or how to even take them properly. Who are as ignorant on the subject as people in here.

2. I can't believe you guys are this unaware on the fact that steroids are EXTREMELY common in todays sports. The only exception to that being high division soccer leagues, premier league, Ligue 1, La Liga, etc.. This is mainly because soccer doesn't require 300lb guys running around, plus they get tested almost every week. Both blood and urine.

3. lol @ the ignorant people in this thread that believe that professional athletes in the olympics are clean. You guys are probably the same group of people that are willing to send money to the Prince of Nigeria. If I had to guess, approximately, 70-80% of olympic athletes are on some kind of PED. This applies to the guy few replies up that believes usain bolt is natty, just lol.

4. Cyclists are notorious for blood doping, whether that be EPO or blood transfusion. They might not be on cycle during the actual events, but you can bet your **** they train with some kind of foreign substance in their system in order to train harder and recover faster.


I could go on all day about how much ignorance was spewed into this thread but each reply I read made me rage even more.

Here are some "natural" athletes:

I could post pictures all day of nfl, mlb, tour de france, wrestlers, gymnists, etc.. that have used steroids before. Most sports you watch today are tainted with steroid use and if you believe otherwise you're extremely ignorant. I would even put money on michael phelps being a steroid user in the past. He might not be on it now, but I'm pretty sure he took something in the past.