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Smooth

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As a gun owner and an adamant supporter of the Second Amendment, you've all seen what I think about gun control and those who wish to take guns away from American citizens.
What are your views on guns?
What do you think about everyday people, regular citizens owning weapons to protect themselves and their homes and families?
What are your views on citizens carrying weapons on their person; either concealed or open carry?
Do you own any guns?
Would you own them?
Are you on the side of the gun grabbers?
Even those of you across the pond, and any other countries; what is your opinion on guns?

This can be a VERY heated debate; people on either side tend to get extreme when discussing the subject, so let's try to have a rational debate. I include myself in that request! :)
 
What are your views on guns? They are very good for self-defence, especially if you live in the USA where they are so accessible to everyone.
What do you think about everyday people, regular citizens owning weapons to protect themselves and their homes and families? I think it's a good idea for the USA and other places that have history of being gun-happy. Here in the EU we don't have much gun crime especially in the UK where guns are almost impossible to get. For that reason I wouldn't support legalising guns in the UK or making them more accessible in other EU states. But I do think it's important for Americans to have guns as enemies could have guns too.

What are your views on citizens carrying weapons on their person; either concealed or open carry? Same as above really. Gun-happy USA should be ok to open carry WITH A LICENSE I feel. The only thing that bothers me is how everyone is ok to get a license for practically everything but when it comes to their gun they go crazy.

Do you own any guns? I cannot and I'm happy with that.
Would you own them? If they where legal in the UK I'd possibly buy one however it wouldn't be my first priority. We're quite safe for gun crime here so I hope it's never legalised.
Are you on the side of the gun grabbers? If I was in the USA I would support gun legislation. In Europe I'm the opposite.
 
When I have a few minutes, I will get answers up for these questions.

I would also like to compare the gun laws that the UK has to the USA. Side by side are they really different?
 
What are your views on guns? I don't mind them, personally. I love when people argue that the allowance of guns will cause more murderers. If someone's going to murder someone with a gun, they aren't going to go the legal way about it - particularly with the gun being connected to them that way.
What do you think about everyday people, regular citizens owning weapons to protect themselves and their homes and families? For the chances of criminals breaking and entering, etc. I agree with guns with a permit, after full psychological health testing, etc.
What are your views on citizens carrying weapons on their person; either concealed or open carry? As above, it's for their protection as people don't only attack in your property. Open carry I'm not hugely over-friendly about, purely for people becoming aware of who has a gun and who they can steal one from - and the fact of small children.
Do you own any guns? I used to own air rifles for when I went camping years ago, but no longer.
Would you own them? My aim is terrible and I guess I have no need for a gun really (I say that now). They aren't as particularly easy to gain licences and such here anyway.
 
fords8 said:
When I have a few minutes, I will get answers up for these questions.

I would also like to compare the gun laws that the UK has to the USA. Side by side are they really different?
Click to expand...

You can only have them to hunt really. You would never see anyone with open carry. I've seen police, but only during olympics. General police don't own guns only the SAF or something.
 
As [MENTION=149]Tommy[/MENTION] has said - very few people in actuality legally own firearms.
The majority of police officers will have batons and spray - I'm not too sure about tasers. But yes, only a specific group of police officers who deal with armed and/or serious offences will be found to carry firearms.

This page holds UK Gun Laws http://www.gundealer.net/rules.htm
This is the official page government page which holds the documents for the laws. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/firearms-law-guidance-to-the-police-2012
 
Before I jump much further into this discussion, I have a question for [MENTION=149]Tommy[/MENTION]. Why "gun-happy"? What does that mean, please?
 
What are your views on guns? I don't view them as totally necessary. They seem to cause a great deal of problems, both from legal and illegal use. Not to mention the whole idea of people who are so gun-orientated that they take it as a personal insult to even consider not owning one.
What do you think about everyday people, regular citizens owning weapons to protect themselves and their homes and families? I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I'm not entirely opposed to the general public owning weaponry, but there needs to be a limit. The idea that someone feels they're so unsafe that they need to own an assault rifle for protection doesn't sit right with me. I think the most damaging weapon that should be legal is a sub-machine gun, or a PDW (Personal Defence Weapon). Assault rifles... well, the clue's in their name. Assault. Not protection, not defence. Assault.
What are your views on citizens carrying weapons on their person; either concealed or open carry? I don't know the full extent of the rules for this, but I would hope that a carry permit has more stringent regulations on it than just keeping one in the house. I'm against open carry; sure, it lets potential criminals know there are guns around ready to stop whatever crimes they may plan to commit, but on the other hand, it lets them know exactly who has them. If you can see someone has a handgun strapped onto them, it may be pretty easy, even unarmed, to overpower them. And suddenly your punch-happy thug is packing heat. Not the best idea, in my opinion.
Do you own any guns? Technically, yes. My late grandfather owned an Enfield L1A1 from his days serving in Egypt in the 50s, along with a sidearm I don't recall. Semi-related, a bayonet. That's pretty cool. I personally own a pair of antique flintlock pistols, though I don't believe it's possible to fire them.
Would you own them? I've used guns in the past, mainly due to a school trip to a local military base, where we were allowed to try some of the equipment the army used. With blanks, of course. I don't think I'd want to own one myself, unless it was a display model. I hear too many stories about stupid people leaving guns around the house, or forgetting to unload them, or a multitude of other tiny mistakes which have led to the deaths of people. Children, especially.
Are you on the side of the gun grabbers? In a way, yes. As I said above, I'm not totally against gun ownership. But it's a flawed system right now. And as I said, "gun" is quite a broad term. Do I want to take away all guns? No. Do I want to take away the high-grade military-level weaponry that's designed purely for maximum kills in minimum time? Yes. A prime example would be James Holmes, the Colorado theatre shooter. He was reported as having psychiatric problems as well as discussing his desire to kill people, plus threatening his university professor. Oh, and he purchased all the weapons legally. Things like this absolutely cannot continue. People like him cannot slip through the net anymore. It's a major problem and it's absolutely terrifying.
 
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@Rebecca Chambers
I have to post this before I read the 2nd line of your reply. Guns do not "cause" anything at all. Guns are inanimate objects with no consciousness or free will or ability to do a solitary thing without a person operating them.
Yes, I am that kind of gun advocate.
 
Actually, the word cause is defined as a person, thing, event, state, or action that produces an effect. Even when not being held, guns are capable of causing problems, be they intellectual (hence debates such as this), misfires (a similar argument would be if a car malfunctions and injures/kills someone, is it the root cause?)

So while yes, at the very tip of the spectrum, a human is considered the fault, it doesn't change the fact that the object itself plays a part in said event.
 
Misfires occur when a trigger is pulled and the projectile does not exit the weapon. Takes a person to do that.
Otherwise, you're trying to enter a debate using semantics, and we will butt heads to no end on that aspect of the discussion. The old adage applies here; Guns don't kill people, PEOPLE kill people. What a person chooses to do with anything that comes to their mind when seeing a gun is still a purposeful, HUMAN action. Your argument in this case is invalid.
 
Smooth said:
The old adage applies here; Guns don't kill people, PEOPLE kill people.
Click to expand...
We can't pretend that guns are irrelevant to the issue just because the trigger needs to be pulled by a person. Guns happen to be an extremely convenient way of killing a mass of people, and they also happen to be very popular among criminals or the mentally unstable who are planning on doing so. Strict regulation is important, particularly with guns. Some would argue that my country, Australia, is too strict with regards to gun prohibition, but we have no gun culture, a low firearm death rate, and those who genuinely need guns for work or leisure can still get a permit to use them. We seem to have benefited, perhaps not solely from the restrictions, but they did play a massive role in the low rate of firearm crime.

I support gun restrictions, regulations.
 
@Slightly I don't "pretend" anything. The issue, whether gun-grabbers or anyone else wants to accept the fact or not is, guns exist, and PEOPLE use them to do bad things. People also use countless other items to do bad things, including knives, bats, hammers and their own hands. So where is the outrage for restriction on knives, bats, hammers and human hands?
You are aware, I hope, that the death rate among patients either incorrectly diagnosed by doctors or incorrect medication given by doctors and dozens of other errors by doctors is responsible for 300% more deaths every year than ANY gun. Where is the public outcry for restrictions on doctors?
More people die in swimming pools every year than are killed by guns. Where is the demand for pool restrictions?
Cars, there's a great one. Drunk and distracted driving is responsible for tens of thousands of more deaths each year than guns. No one is out there screaming for car restrictions and in fact, people are hurting and killing more people than ever with all this technology that they can't seem to stay away from while behind the wheel.
People also use guns in countless instances to protect themselves and other people. Those stories are never told by the scripted liberal media. God forbid anything positive be told about guns when those in charge are doing their best to take away a person's ability to protect themselves when those in charge aren't capable of doing it themselves. In fact, they fear an armed public because they prefer our obedience rather than our independence.
America in particular is being taken down a path which the government is hoping will lead to the citizens being reliant ONLY on the government for everything, including personal protection. We are being taken back to the Revolutionary War times and the ideals that this country was founded on and the rights given to the free citizens are being slowly but most certainly chipped away.
Those of you on this board who live in America should be more aware of what is going on in this country. Most of you are very young, still idealistic, still na?ve about history and how it is being repeated right now. If you don't learn what is happening and how to change it, your children will live in slavery, in a socialist, communistic country.
Right now I may sound paranoid and crazy. Give it 10 years, at the most. Then you'll see I know whereof I speak.
This country has become unrecognizable to me, just in my own lifetime.
The ****storm I see coming begins now, with the American government trying to disarm its citizens. I don't intend to become a sheep.
 
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Your deluded fear that America would turn into a dictatorship state if firearms were more strictly regulated was mildly amusing, but aside from that, I'm afraid you'll have to cite some sources for some of your statistics or claims. Some sound less legitimate than others.

As far as restricting other potential weapons (knives, bats, hammers, cars), when these items all have the potential to cause as much damage as a semi-automatic gun in the hands of a mentally disturbed individual, and when a gun serves a practical purpose other than its current sole purpose which is to kill, only then may there be merit in arguing that the previously mentioned items should be restricted or regulated heavily. With regards to car related deaths, these deaths arise from misuse and negligence, which are bred from a lack of education. This is the reason, in my country at least, the government is continually funding so many school programs to teach children and teenagers the risks associated with driving and how to behave more responsibly when driving.

The main issue is mitigating damage, of which guns cause a lot. Dealing with car related deaths and firearm homicide aren't mutually exclusive goals, but they can't be reached by the same path.
 
Gladly, although the slightest bit of effort on your own would show you these things easily if you'd only choose to learn.
It's nice to know you're amused. You'll be laughing out of the other side of your face when what I predict actually happens. You are, of course, free to live in your delusions for as long as you choose to be a sheep.

http://www.policymic.com/articles/2...-100-out-of-12-000-annual-homicides-in-the-us

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Govern...aths-That-Were-Gun-Related-In-2011-34-percent

This one should be of particular interest to you. There are numerous links to further back up what I have said.

Oops! You're right! My stat on deaths caused by doctors as opposed to guns was WAY off. Source for that stat is here. The percentage of deaths by doctors is actually 2,450% higher than ALL GUNS COMBINED.

Next?
 
Smooth said:
errors by doctors is responsible for 300% more deaths every year than ANY gun. Where is the public outcry for restrictions on doctors?
More people die in swimming pools every year than are killed by guns. Where is the demand for pool restrictions?
Cars, there's a great one. Drunk and distracted driving is responsible for tens of thousands of more deaths each year than guns. No one is out there screaming for car restrictions and in fact, people are hurting and killing more people than ever with all this technology that they can't seem to stay away from while behind the wheel.
Click to expand...

You seem to be missing the point that gun crime is just extra, pointless death.
300 people die due to mistakes and accidents while being treated for whatever problem they have. 100 people die from gun crime. Yeah, more people die 'cause while being treated for their problem, but the 100 people that died from gun crime died pointless deaths. If gun restrictions in America were stronger and better enforced, then maybe those 100 people would still be alive.
Accidents happen in medicine, it's incredibly rare that doctors intentionally kill people. If Americans cared as much about getting a decent healthcare system as they do about keeping their guns, there probably wouldn't be half as many accidents or illtreatment.

Swimming pools: How often do people use swimming pools as their choice of murder weapon?

Car accidents are just that. Accidents. If a person chooses to drink and drive or text while driving, it's their own fault they died. It's not their fault if someone shoots them, they didn't ask for it, they didn't bring it upon him/herself. It's a death that could have been avoided.
Cars are restricted as best they can be, and that's not much because of the vast amount of people that use them and need them. You don't need a gun unless it's part of your job to have one.

As for bats, knives, hammers, etc., they all serve a different purpose but all have one thing in common: They weren't made to kill people. Guns were.
 
One bit I have to nitpick about, without getting involved in the debate:
Vampenstine said:
Car accidents are just that. Accidents. If a person chooses to drink and drive or text while driving, it's their own fault they died. It's not their fault if someone shoots them, they didn't ask for it, they didn't bring it upon him/herself. It's a death that could have been avoided.
Click to expand...

What about the sober and innocent drivers, families, children, who die because of someone else's lack of concentration because of technology, or misuse of what is technically a weapon in this case? They didn't ask for it, nor did they bring it upon themselves - just like victims of armed homicides.
 
In the case of drivers, no of course the innocent people didn't deserve it or bring it upon themselves, but it was an accident. I have no sympathy for the drunken or texting driver, but that driver didn't intend to smash into the innocent person and kill them.
Someone who kills with a gun usually intendes to shoot someone dead.

Either way it ends in innocent victims, but there is a difference between the two.
 
It seems I have gotten a bit ahead of myself here. I tend to do that when it involves a topic I believe in very strongly. Let me make a couple things clear.
I am not trying to make gun fans out of anyone. I am not trying to impose any belief on anyone. As a gun owner and a vehement supporter of the Second Amendment, I wish only to show those who fear guns that there are many things out there much more dangerous than gun ownership and to cast a different light on gun owners like myself.
I don't believe that everyone under the sun should own guns. There are members of my immediate family who I would never allow to even handle my weapons, they are that inept.
I do believe in background checks and training in the proper use of firearms.
I also believe that an armed society is a polite society. If no one knew for sure who had weapons on them or in their home, crime would drop significantly, and in areas where guns are banned, crime IS higher, just as where there are many gun owners, crime is lower than other places.
I did go off on a political rant of sorts, but it is with a different intent than what has come across from my posts to this point.
 
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