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Trump or Nothing: All In

Seraph

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I've been involved with politics for many years now. Not nearly as many as some but enough where I am very comfortable in my political positions and beliefs. I debate very often and while I'm not on this forum as much anymore because of my internet situation (I'm still stuck on a tablet using mobile data) I do find myself on Facebook due to the ease of it being an app. I have a special account on there for debating versus my personal account. I like to keep politics and personal matters separate and I find security is key in such a venue. Due to these experiences I had to make a choice.

I'm voting Trump. I'm not voting anything else. If Trump isn't the final nominee then I simply will not. I will not expend the effort on something I don't believe in. Is that a freebie for the Democrats? No, but someone will try to make that case. I am one person after all in a state that was stupid enough to support Barrack Obama twice and vote an experience-less Clinton foundation tool to be our Governor. Virginia tries to be a purple swing state but we're a tad too stupid when it comes to the matters of liberty and freedom. Ironically we have such a strong military force that it's astounding that the state isn't solid red. I digress.

My experiences on the web and careful research have lead me to voting for Trump. My experiences have also had a negative effect where I am now so disgusted by the other campaigns (except for Carson) that I wouldn't support them even if they paid me.

Firstly let me say I still love Ben Carson. I think he's the best candidate and I think he's the cure America needs. I think America is a bit stupid for forcing him out of the race without consideration. Still reality must dictate that I choose a viable candidate. John Kasich was a joke to begin with and I'm not even sure how much less why he's still in the election at all. He's a Democrat himself practically.

I'm going to start with Ted Cruz supporters. These individuals make the Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders, Barack Obama, and Ron Paul fandoms combined look like nothing. They are so radical that I question where their loyalty really lies. They attack with vicious speed and gang up faster than a university professor can call for muscle against the student press. They're the rudest people on the internet and even make liberals look like very nice and competent debaters. I secretly think many of them are Democrats who are imposing on our side of the election because they fear Donald Trump so much. Logic dictates that if it acts like a liberal, attacks like a liberal, retorts like a liberal, and bullies like a liberal, there's a pretty good chance it's a liberal. Needless to say the supporters make up the bulk of the campaign and represent their candidate. I do not feel Ted Cruz would be a bad president. Do I feel it's his time? No. I think he has a future ahead of him to say the least. His supporters have turned me off to his campaign more than anyone else has however.

Marco Rubio supporters are non-existent. Given his polling numbers someone, somewhere, must support the man but clearly they don't make the fact known. Given the absence of his supporters I cannot judge them at all. I've had limited if even any interactions with any. I will however say that I have lost all respect for Rubio. In the last week before Super Tuesday Rubio has decided to switch his game and be an attack dog. That's fine, Trump has been doing it the entire time, but to do it so late in the game feels fake and desperate to say the least. Instead of campaigning Rubio has masqueraded as a middle schooler spreading gossip and bullying another student (Trump). His town hall meetings in the last few days have sounded like a night at the comedy club; which leads me to believe that if Rubio hangs up the politician's jacket he may have a engaging career as a stand up comic. He certain'y has the demeanor but not thanks to him I associate his campaign with that demeanor. I don't need a clown in office (I know that's an unfounded and often used insult against Trump but maybe it is because Trump is certainly not a clown?). Rubio himself has shut down any chances he has had for President and his positions are shaky at best; especially on the topic of illegal immigration.

I like Trump. I liked Trump before this election and I like him now. I may not have always shown it when Ben Carson stood a chance but I do like Trump. I have always thought he would make a good President. Perhaps I gravitate towards businessmen in elections - I did support Herman Cain in 2012 after all. I never seem to pick the winner in the nominee process early on anyways so maybe it was an omen Carson would fail. Trump's ideas support many of my own. I want the economy fixed, I want our debt lowered, and I want America to start producing again. I'm tired of my generation being called entitled while the older generations who supplanted this idea do not do anything to intervene. I want a man who will support the veterans and those in the active duty. I want someone who can not only make foreign policy but also has the balls to listen to senior advisers and the military brass. I want a man who can finally control illegal immigration and stop the drug war (lets be honest here...Mexico can and will fund the wall if we pay for the wall with the billions in free funding we give their nation a year for nothing!). I want someone who has pride in the nation and will fix it.

I don't think a politician can do it. I don't think the bandwagon will elect a good leader. I think Trump at this point is out only option. The Democrats are clearly looking to put forward Hillary Clinton. They're dumb and we're going to want someone loud and in charge to take the fight to her. We don't want the meek Romney clone. We want to run fast, aggressive, and win.

So I only have one vote to give and it's only going to one place, or not at all. Criticize as you will.
 
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I just want to say first of all that this was a great post, how any debate/serious discussion should begin. :)

Trump is a very appealing candidate. His qualities that make him appealing also make him a target of ridicule. In my Facebook stream which is basically all college kids, it seems every other post is an insult/ridicule to Trump. There's also a lot praise for Bernie Sanders. Honestly, I think it's because it's become "cool" to ridicule Trump and and it's also become "cool" to like Bernie Sanders if you're a college kid. You probably know the stats, a majority of us don't vote. The people who are posting the Trump memes probably know nothing about politics. They just call themselves "liberal" because they support abortion or gay marriage (because it's also "cool" to do so) or whatnot. Most of them have never paid taxes in their life (neither have I), and don't really realize what it means to have 30%+ of your money to get taken away to support a lot of programs you think are useless. A lot of Trump's positions are very attractive to me. Of course, Trump's tax plan very much so... and with other budget restructuring it is definitely feasible. And if it came down to him versus Clinton or Sanders in the general election, and I didn't live in the deep blue state of Illinois where voting is useless, I would end up voting for him.
 
I'm a democrat personally, so to me, voting for Trump isn't likely. While many may scrutinize me for being democratic in my mind, it's my personal belief. I'm pro-choice and pro equal rights with marriage and stuff, but that's because it affects me heavily. I'm a female who's needed to use birth control when I'm not even sexually active still just because of hormonal issues, and pro-life people I've met usually even yell at you for that- even if you need it medically. But that's just the ones I met. Most probably [or hopefully] aren't like that]. Full rights for same-sex marriage is important to me because I am, in fact, not heterosexual- I'm a biromantic lesbian [I'm dating a guy right now, but that's because I'm romantically in love with him and he accepts I'm never gonna touch his lower half for any reason].

Dreamlander said:
.Most of them have never paid taxes in their life (neither have I), and don't really realize what it means to have 30%+ of your money to get taken away to support a lot of programs you think are useless.

This portion makes me curious as to which programs our tax money is going into that you're feeling are useless. As a disabled person living on welfare because they got the short end of the stick with a horrible disability judge, I find many of the tax-funded projects very important. My lawyer comes from a state-run program for mentally ill people that helps with anything from civil disputes to disability claims and the like- funded by taxes. I'm on welfare, as I said, which is also funded by taxes. My father, also disabled, lives on SSDI and Medicare. Without these projects that many complain about having to pay for, I'd probably already be dead because of my physical and mental health issues.

If I were to vote for a Republican candidate to run, I admit I'd go with Trump. The one thing I rather admire about him is what most people that dislike him complain about: He can be very blunt. As someone with a severe trust disorder who values honesty over all, I so far see him as probably the most honest candidate on the Republican side. His blunt words may be rough, but to me, bluntness can often show sincerity.

However, I find that I worry about his standpoint on a lot of things: all of which aren't aided by his heavily wealthy background. It's hard for someone who's grown up at the far opposite end of the totem pole to feel like someone from the 1% is really going to be able to help those like me- those of us still part of the population that are already severely suffering whether a Democrat or Republican holds the seat.


Jumping to my own preferences, however, I'm going to point out that I refuse to vote for Hillary Clinton, either. If she wins the Democratic Primaries, I'll probably go for a third party- if possible, Sanders by himself, unrelated. A lot of women automatically want to go for Hillary because she /is/ a woman- but I think that's pathetically silly, and it's also troublesome that she seems far less trustworthy to me even than Trump most of the time.

I think besides that, my main worry is who Trump [honestly I don't see anyone else winning Republican Primaries] uses as his running-mate. If Chris Christie [who I hear has been trying really hard to get that spot lately] gets that chance....I'm not going to be happy. A lot of people won't be though. No one in New Jersey I know [and that's a lot of people in state] don't like him. We're mostly just excited to get rid of him as governor- but I don't want him in the white house at all, either.
 
Juneberry said:
I'm a democrat personally, so to me, voting for Trump isn't likely. While many may scrutinize me for being democratic in my mind, it's my personal belief. I'm pro-choice and pro equal rights with marriage and stuff, but that's because it affects me heavily. I'm a female who's needed to use birth control when I'm not even sexually active still just because of hormonal issues, and pro-life people I've met usually even yell at you for that- even if you need it medically. But that's just the ones I met. Most probably [or hopefully] aren't like that]. Full rights for same-sex marriage is important to me because I am, in fact, not heterosexual- I'm a biromantic lesbian [I'm dating a guy right now, but that's because I'm romantically in love with him and he accepts I'm never gonna touch his lower half for any reason].

Dreamlander said:
Most of them have never paid taxes in their life (neither have I), and don't really realize what it means to have 30%+ of your money to get taken away to support a lot of programs you think are useless.


This portion makes me curious as to which programs our tax money is going into that you're feeling are useless. As a disabled person living on welfare because they got the short end of the stick with a horrible disability judge, I find many of the tax-funded projects very important. My lawyer comes from a state-run program for mentally ill people that helps with anything from civil disputes to disability claims and the like- funded by taxes. I'm on welfare, as I said, which is also funded by taxes. My father, also disabled, lives on SSDI and Medicare. Without these projects that many complain about having to pay for, I'd probably already be dead because of my physical and mental health issues.

The only thing I have a real problem with is retirement benefits. Able-bodied people can easily save for retirement themselves, they don't need the government to "help" them. As for healthcare, I really do support redistribution of wealth in that area. People would let you die if they could. Disabled people should definitely get retirement benefits, and any other services they currently receive, plus more. It's our job as a society to take care of these people. I also support a state run healthcare system, but it wouldn't necessarily be "free" for able bodied people. It would be much more efficient than the current **** we have right now.

Ideally, able-bodied people would pay into the state run health care system, which would give themselves health care as well as disabled people. And if anyone wanted to add on to the state care health with private plans, they most definitely could.

Also, all of the candidates are in the top 1%. Even Bernie makes 200k+ yearly. But he is definitely the "most normal."

http://www.people.com/article/bernie-sanders-fun-grandpa
 
Dreamlander said:
I just want to say first of all that this was a great post, how any debate/serious discussion should begin. :)

Trump is a very appealing candidate. His qualities that make him appealing also make him a target of ridicule. In my Facebook stream which is basically all college kids, it seems every other post is an insult/ridicule to Trump. There's also a lot praise for Bernie Sanders. Honestly, I think it's because it's become "cool" to ridicule Trump and and it's also become "cool" to like Bernie Sanders if you're a college kid. You probably know the stats, a majority of us don't vote. The people who are posting the Trump memes probably know nothing about politics. They just call themselves "liberal" because they support abortion or gay marriage (because it's also "cool" to do so) or whatnot. Most of them have never paid taxes in their life (neither have I), and don't really realize what it means to have 30%+ of your money to get taken away to support a lot of programs you think are useless. A lot of Trump's positions are very attractive to me. Of course, Trump's tax plan very much so... and with other budget restructuring it is definitely feasible. And if it came down to him versus Clinton or Sanders in the general election, and I didn't live in the deep blue state of Illinois where voting is useless, I would end up voting for him.

I try. I have to write a lot in my classes so if I'm really feeling like it I can write pretty good lol. 99.9% of the time on the web you just won't see it. 

I also think he's an appealing candidate. His views certainly stand along mine in many ways. Some of this post is more so my distrust of other campaigns than his campaign however. So it makes you wonder where my stand is. Am I happy with this election? No, but I am rolling with the punches. At the same time the I won't take a punch  just because I'm trying to keep the peace. So morally for me I have to take a stand somewhere. Time wise I have to take a stand because voting day starts in 26 hours. I will vote in this roulette of an election. 

This also shouldn't be taken for consistency. I may change my mind, not on this trump thing due to the short time table, but perhaps on the entire election. Maybe if Cruz wins I will support him. Maybe Rubio too. This post is more of a moment in time sort of thing. I used to actually blog about politics pretty often.
 
Juneberry said:
I'm a democrat personally, so to me, voting for Trump isn't likely. While many may scrutinize me for being democratic in my mind, it's my personal belief. I'm pro-choice and pro equal rights with marriage and stuff, but that's because it affects me heavily. I'm a female who's needed to use birth control when I'm not even sexually active still just because of hormonal issues, and pro-life people I've met usually even yell at you for that- even if you need it medically. But that's just the ones I met. Most probably [or hopefully] aren't like that]. Full rights for same-sex marriage is important to me because I am, in fact, not heterosexual- I'm a biromantic lesbian [I'm dating a guy right now, but that's because I'm romantically in love with him and he accepts I'm never gonna touch his lower half for any reason]. 

You know it's personal struggles like these that can make debates hard. It's hard not to make them personal. They easily become grudge matches without much concern for civility. I'm not going to take on your personal points but I do enjoy that you shared them as anecdotes to support your debate. That's a good segway in a debate. I just had a kid on another forum, same post, who was so anti-trump that he couldn't even open his mind to debate. He couldn't get past his own emotions and that's all he had. It's refreshing to see emotions, facts, and ideas in one form.
 
I disagree. Able body people cannot always save for retirement and who defines who is able bodied to begin with? Do we judge on looks? The government has proven to be a great asset when it comes to personal financial matters. I am not a very financially smart person. I sometimes spend myself into corners sadly to say. Through the military I engaged in the TPS program. This system for every dollar I saved matched a dollar in my account. So for every dollar I saved I actually put away towards retirement $2. This made saving easy for someone like me. It came out of my paycheck. I requested it. I never saw the funds. I don't think it's fair to take away a benefit that's earned. If you work towards something like retirement then you'll be a lot happier later in life.

Redistribution of wealth is always a mistake. It's been a mistake every time in history it's been tried. What you end up with is Communistic and sometimes Marxist societies akin to Latin America banana republics. Everyone makes the same amount of wealth but there's always someone to lead, someone to command, and someone to order. Wealth distribution isn't fair. You earn what earn based on your hard work and your effort. If your dream is to flip burgers then you will get the minimum wage pay of that job. Should you seek a skill, trade, or degree you will seek the benefits of that area.

State run healthcare is one of those ideas that sounds great...until you actually do it. Look at Britain. They have national healthcare...you can't see a doctor, you can't get proper care nearly as soon as you need it, and there are actual waiting lists that patients die on just waiting for treatment of disease! You have the demoralized young working away their lives to treat the sickly old. It's a system that causes resent in society and great misfortune to those who actually need healthcare. The best option is not a magical sounding one that's actually bad. The best option is a competitive market where insurance companies compete and base rates on the needs of the customer.

What we are debating here isn't so much American politics but outright communism which will never come to these shores.
 
Seraph said:
I disagree. Able body people cannot always save for retirement and who defines who is able bodied to begin with? Do we judge on looks? The government has proven to be a great asset when it comes to personal financial matters. I am not a very financially smart person. I sometimes spend myself into corners sadly to say. Through the military I engaged in the TPS program. This system for every dollar I saved matched a dollar in my account. So for every dollar I saved I actually put away towards retirement $2. This made saving easy for someone like me. It came out of my paycheck. I requested it. I never saw the funds. I don't think it's fair to take away a benefit that's earned. If you work towards something like retirement then you'll be a lot happier later in life.

Redistribution of wealth is always a mistake. It's been a mistake every time in history it's been tried. What you end up with is Communistic and sometimes Marxist societies akin to Latin America banana republics. Everyone makes the same amount of wealth but there's always someone to lead, someone to command, and someone to order. Wealth distribution isn't fair. You earn what earn based on your hard work and your effort. If your dream is to flip burgers then you will get the minimum wage pay of that job. Should you seek a skill, trade, or degree you will seek the benefits of that area.

State run healthcare is one of those ideas that sounds great...until you actually do it. Look at Britain. They have national healthcare...you can't see a doctor, you can't get proper care nearly as soon as you need it, and there are actual waiting lists that patients die on just waiting for treatment of disease! You have the demoralized young working away their lives to treat the sickly old. It's a system that causes resent in society and great misfortune to those who actually need healthcare. The best option is not a magical sounding one that's actually bad. The best option is a competitive market where insurance companies compete and base rates on the needs of the customer.

What we are debating here isn't so much American politics but outright communism which will never come to these shores.

Well, the thing is, we already have redistribution of wealth right here in America. Taxpayers are at least partially paying for Juneberry's health services. If we didn't (as she already said) she would die. We need to have at least a little bit of wealth distribution. This is where, in my opinion, morality and ethics trump (no pun intended) the free market. I completely agree with you in that people should be rewarded for their hard work and effort. For example, my major at my University is considered one of the hardest and most time consuming, but it also has one of the highest salaries. But there are a lot of people who can't work as hard as they want to, be it from physical or mental disabilities. We can't just let them die. It's our duty as human beings to care for the disabled. 

As for the universal health care, I really believe that everyone should be entitled to basic health care. I'm not saying that we should pay for the expensive surgeries of others especially if they can pay on their own. I'm talking about basic doctor visits, access to antibiotics, etc. It would just be the bare minimum service, and then people would be expected to supplement this with their own insurance. You would be able to invest in a good plan for yourself if you wanted.
 
Now Trump is elected, I'd say his has too many liabilities. Pence would have been the better choice. True, Trump is charismatic, but it's that same personality which is his downfall. There are just too many scandals - as you'd expect from a rich playboy.
 
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